Comments on: What the fuck is sexy about humiliation?

By: Humiliation | My submissive Blog

Humiliation | My submissive Blog — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:40:15 +0000

[...] going on a trip today. Not sure how or where I’ll do it. But she will be humiliated [...]

By: LordSir Ninetails

LordSir Ninetails — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 17:02:41 +0000

Addendum. When I use the term “public space” I am not referring to something actually out in the open such as a park, mall, or etc. but rather any one of the many membership dungeons or clubs set up for the use of BDSM.
With Love in BDSM, -LordSir Ninetails

By: LordSir Ninetails

LordSir Ninetails — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 16:15:44 +0000

Really? Have you never worn something under your clothing that is not exhibited but which still humiliates you personally? Perhaps your referring to a type of play where you are humiliated by the Threat of exposure?
Also, playing or acting “Dirty” and being called “Dirty” in this context is far different from an accusatory statement that you Are, in fact, ”Dirty” “Unclean” and “Unfit to be around” by someone whom you don’t know and don’t know where they are coming from. This has and I am sure, will , happen again, when playing in public play spaces. It even happens when the guests from the space have retired to their favorite eatery or hangout and are discussing it amongst themselves, both aware(which is viscious), or unaware(which is ignorant) that someone from that scene or family/group is nearby or amongst them. Sometimes it isn’t the words that get the participants but the way that people act who are watching, or watched, the exhibition. At this point, as you stated before, it no longer is humiliation play but just plain humiliation. I have seen too many BDSM families/groups disappear from trying to bring things out into the light for novices because they can’t keep their judgemental minds to themselves. OOps,sorry, I just ranted, my bad. But, so , yes, if you are intending to use a public space, then yes, for yours and your submissives well-being you do have to have an exit-scenario.

By: Cloud

Cloud — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:14:09 +0000

Ahh I never meant to suggest all exhibitionism is humiliation play. But as you point out, someone who is utterly comfortable with nudity really isn’t an exhibitionist. Breaching a taboo is part of the kink.

What I do mean to suggest, as a hypothesis for which I invite response, is that humiliation play includes an element of exhibitionism, even if the play is private; that the adrenleine rush of exposure is part of humiliation play. I am not sure humiliation play is a subset of exhibitionism, just that they over-lap. Comments?

I have to disagree that an exhibitionistic scene is necessarily spoiled by suggestions that the behavior is dirty – some of us might enjoy that. Ok – do enjoy that Nor can I agree that the only way a wise Dominant protects the submissive is by ensuring they have an exit-scanario; but I absolutely agree that before exhibitionism play is begun, it too needs a boundary discussion. You never know what someone’s personal limits are unless you TALK about it. And being prepared in case an unexpected Trigger is stumbled upon is also wise for anyone doing what feels to them “edgy”.

By: LordSir Ninetails

LordSir Ninetails — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:01:11 +0000

Exhibitionism is a separate type of play from humiliation, though humiliation might be used in the Exhibition. An exhibitionist enjoys showing themselves or a part of themselves off, they aren’t humiliated by it. If you are talking about humiliating someone by forcing them to exhibit themselves when they don’t enjoy it, then you are probably talking about a punishment. Or perhaps it is a person in the exhibitionist’s audience who becomes humiliated by seeing the exhibitionist show off. Further, one should not confuse a person who is comfortable with showing themselves in RL, such as a naturist/nudist, or a flasher/teaser/stripper, with someone who is an exhibitionist. The exhibitionist is, usually, a very private individual who rarely,if ever, shows off in public but once in the company of trusted individuals or groups allows themselves the pleasure and turn-on of exhibiting themselves. Yes, it can be very humiliating if someone were to suggest to them that being an exhibitionist was somehow “dirty” or “unclean” and it would indeed spoil the beauty of the scene. However, the wise Dominant will have been prepared for that eventuality by having talked to the submissive prior to the scene about the possibility and making sure the submissive is capable of handling it in as graceful and superior a manner as possible. I will add a small note here that I have seen, in this way, some of the most beautiful (and by beautiful I am not necessarily meaning of physical beauties) and simply amazing men and women this world produces. -LordSir Ninetails

By: Cloud Bracken

Cloud Bracken — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 09:12:33 +0000

Donal, Moonglow and LordSir Ninetails, thank you for your posts, and also for our inWorld chats which I have greatly enjoyed; Donal, as I said then, this is a topic, an issue, with which I still struggle, both to speak of it, and also to … enjoy.

The link between exhibitionism and humiliation play is worth talking about here, maybe. I think most if not all kinky people have some element of exhibitionism in their sexuality… because I think most if not all humans, or even primates, have exhibitionism in their sexuality. We like to show off our mates and our mating, our dominance and submission (sexual or social). It might be the kiss a campaigning politician gives his or her spouse on stage (preferrably with proof of their sexual past – their children – looking cute in the background) or it might be the display behaviors of Mardi Gras carnival or prom photos; it’s so visually common it is un-remarkable.

Humiliation play and exhibitionism: again, a tasty paradox. There’s no humiliation without SOME kind of personal display or disclosure. It might just be to one partner in private or ::cough:: on the internet or in a virtual world Square with a gathering crowd. The exhibition might be acted out extensively, or perhaps a psychological suggestion might be enough to make a submissive flush and a Dominant smile.

It was once suggested to me that ALL D/s play is at least to some extent Humiliation Play. At the time, I objected strongly… because while Dominance/submission gives me great pleasure, at the time I would have said, “I don’t do Humiliation Play.” Tonight, I am not so sure there is not an element of truth in that theory (though it would involve accepting as Humiliation play even mild expressions down to the Bachelor/Bachelorette party strip tease LordSir cited).

What do you think, people? Is humiliation play just part of What We Do? Or is it just hard-core edgy psychological sado-masochism to which my post spoke?

By: LordSir Ninetails

LordSir Ninetails — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:48:56 +0000

Oh, and by the way,”Very Good Post!”, cloud. -LordSir Ninetails

By: LordSir Ninetails

LordSir Ninetails — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:33:19 +0000

The truth about Humiliation Play (not to be confused with Humiliation as a form of overt cruelty to other human beings meant to degrade their self worth) is that it may be one of the most powerful tools a Dominant has in their arsenal. It actually is an extension of what a Dominant does in most other types of play, for example: The naked, bound, slave was fully exposed to her Master’s skilled handling of the knife. In this example the slave (and possibly the Master) is experiencing an andreline rush (and possibly an endorphin rush) as they explore an activity that is perceived as having an element of danger to it. It allows the participants to put aside the trappings of ordinary life and do something that would be unthinkable if it wasn’t being done by someone trusted, with pre-consent to do this activity to them. In the scene, a suspension of belief in imminent harm, is achieved, and the submissive then allows themselves to experience something they would not otherwise feel in life. It is still believable that there is an element of danger in what they are doing but it is under the control of someone skilled and whom they trust to make the right decisions.
In Humiliation Play, this same trust and consent is necessary in order for the suspension of belief in imminent real harm to take place. It requires the Dominant to be extremely careful in what they choose to Humiliate the submissive with, for example; before dressing the submissive in a pig outfit you would need to know if they have a problem with weight gain issues, self-esteem issues, self-worth issues, and the two of you would have to talk about those issues enough to get to a point where you are both comfortable with how the other feels about it and know that it is not a serious issue to one another in terms of their Dominant/submissive relationship. In this case the Dominant’s use of the pig outfit was meant to convey the submissives zeal for pain and not as a criticism of the submissives body type but the other issues had to be known and dealt with before using this type of humiliation. This is where I will put in a STRONG word of caution: This is EDGE play and even though you have talked about the issues and you both know where the other is coming from and the intent of the play is not meant to bring up real feelings of real problem issues it can still happen. As the Dominant, it is your responsibility to realize this could happen and be prepared for when/if this occurs. As the submissive it is your responsibility to know that things you (or your Master) didn’t count on affecting you will happen and you must be willing to give both of you a chance to work through the problem when it does. However, humiliation play can add an element or some extra spice to a scene or relationship because it allows the submissive to discharge one of their insecurities which they would not do in normal appearances and play with it (and possibly not be so insecure with it in the future). It produces an adrenaline rush and sometimes the skin gets flush and the unease/tension they feel is expressed and produces an equal reaction in the sadistic Dominant. Then the submissive reacts to the Dominants reaction. A hardwired erotic trip for both is quite possible at this point. This goes to one of the underlying elements in nearly all D/s relationships – the freeing of the submissive, by way of giving permission to them to do something they wouldn’t normally do, and with the knowledge that the Dominant believes it is okay to do and that the submissive is perfectly alright too, even though they are doing it. Just as a reference point lets point out that Humiliation Play is in the mainstream sexual world as well, though it isn’t readily recognized as such: the strip tease at the bachelor/bachelorette party. The difference is that we develop the skill to use it as an erotic tool and understand the responsibilities involved with using it, unlike the mainstream who rarely give the implications much thought. The objective of Humiliation Play is not to tear someone down, but rather just the opposite: encouraging someone to come out of their shell, their comfort zone, with some type of insecurity they have, playing with it, and reinforcement in the way of erotic turn-on and personal acceptance of their uniqueness when they are able to do so. With Love in BDSM…-LordSir Ninetails

By: Moonglow Bouchard

Moonglow Bouchard — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 03:47:22 +0000

Hey Cloud,

Very well written post. Some definite good points here. Sure your sis may never understand. And that’s quite alright. It takes all kinds to make the world go ’round.

Live and let live. Or as Xena says “Kill ‘em ALLLLLL”.
Moonglow

By: Donal Euler

Donal Euler — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:36:07 +0000

Cloud,

Thanks for this post. I’m a rather inexperienced Dom and am trying to better understand humiliation play and exhibitionism. This post has helped a bit, as have our chats.

Donal